Posts by Cold Steel

17

The Ultimate Jehovah's Witness Question??? dun dun DUN

by runForever in

there is a gray space, unconnected rifts in the truth.

it is a question that once you ask it you will never be the same - like being on the.

event horizon of a black hole.

Cold Steel

Where does the Society leadership justify forcing members to do door to door work? It's NOT in the Bible. It has NO precedent. Apparently the members have let themselves be hogtied into such a movement and rely on magazines instead of the Bible. Haven't they read the book of Acts? John said the gospel would be preached in all nations, and then the end would come. But he didn't say who would do the preaching, and from everything that's been learned about first century Christianity, there's NOTHING to indicate that the general membership would 1) be ordained ministers and 2) that they would go out in twos to preach.

Seventh Day Adventists don't do it. Miller didn't do it. No other religious sect does it and Jesus never told the membership in his day to do it. Instead, elders, priests, teachers, deacons, bishops, seventy and others were called of God and ordained by those in authority. Speaking of the high priesthood, Paul said no one takes this honor unto himself but he who is called of God as was Aaron. (Heb. 5:3) How was Aaron called? See Exodus 28. He was called when God gave Moses a revelation specifically telling him to separate Aaron and his sons and clothe them with holy priesthood garments so he could serve in the priest's office. He had nothing to do with his own calling.

JWs quote Matthew 19, but only the part in red do they quote. What comes before isn't quoted:

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

First, the "eleven" apostles (who were called and ordained) were the ones being addressed. Jesus is worshiped and tells the apostles that "all power" has been given him. The reason is because he is the God of Israel. He told the apostles to go into all the world and to preach the gospel. We know these apostles appointed and ordained bishops and established churches, and that they called missionaries to preach the gospel. But nowhere did he say that baptized members had any priesthood powers or the authority to baptize others.

So all this business of logging hours and going out on weekends to do this preaching is a manmade doctrine and done with no authority whatsoever. So it makes me wonder if someone is baptized into the Society and decides to just go to church and not do missionary work, what would happen? Would they be disfellowshiped or shunned?

Didn't any of you guys ever question all the Pioneer stuff and the recording of hours? Back in the early 70s, JWs would write on the walls of apartment buildings in discreet places showing dates and areas tracted. It would be in the format of something like a tic-tac-toe grid. They still do that?

.

10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

Why did you investigate it so long? I'm reading Kyria Abraham's book, I'M PERFECT, YOU'RE DOOMED, and finished another one, and both authors talk about how local leaders butted into their lives to incredible degrees. The JWs have ruined a lot of lives by keeping people from pursuing higher education and better jobs. Certainly they'll stay home tonight so they can see who Red John is!

What really gets me, though, was the pressure to live in certain places, conduct business in certain places and be so judgmental in condemning everone but themselves to eternal death.

10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

These are some of the most fascinating posts I've read so far, and too many people are telling the same story. At some point there is rebellion. At what point do they begin trying to control your life? And is it common that they try to interfere in aspects of your life like washing machine soap, where you have services such as dry cleaning and what sort of music you listen to. How would they know these things, anyway? Do they snoop? Doesn't anyone resist and just say, "Nah, I like this soap better," or "Nah, I like the way they starch my knickers at my place," or, "I found a way to copy all the songs to a CD except for 'Rise, Dark Lord and Do My Biidding!"

Is there nothing they feel is beyond their ken? And if not, when does one go from investigator to someone they feel they can control? In other words, when do they start butting in? As far as I see it, no ecclesiastical group should ever seek such authority over the types of things people have told me about.

38

What IS the meaning and purpose of EVIL?

by Monsieur in

reading about the massacre of the jw family in mexico brought up all kinds of questions again.. from the standpoint of someone who doesn't in believe in 'god' or a 'conventional' god,.

what is the meaning and purpose of evil?.

how does it relate to the overall universe and its balance?

Cold Steel

As much as atheists hate to admit it, if there is no God, there is no moral significance to good an evil. For if there is no law, there is no sin; and if there is no sin, there is no righteousness or unrighteousness, and thus no happiness (for happiness cannot exist outside of righteousness) and, consequently, no punishment or misery and, lastly, no God.

Evangelicals try to say that God created righteousness, and then his creations created evil. They fail to understand that one cannot exist without the other; for righteousness cannot exist without evil and it also cannot exist without God.

The one thing that evolution cannot hard wire us for is a knowledge of good and evil, because that requires an intelligence that's not hooked into survival. Evolution, as seen by Darwin, accounts only for instincts related to survival. And if survival meant more than anything else there could not and would not be self sacrifice, compassion, empathy, honesty, or virtue. There also would be no justice, for animals completely lack the concept. They may sacrifice themselves for their young, but only because it adds to the survival of the species. Not because they have a sense of nobility.

Survival rests solely on what one can get away with. Had Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and others been able to get away with what they did and the killing and torture of so many millions of people, then, if there were no God, they would have no one to answer for other than themselves. And it wouldn't have been for good or evil; it just would have been. A million years from now, no one would even remember it or care. And because there is no God, there would be no justice, and if no justice, no punishment. Thus, the actions of all people would be neither good nor evil because good and evil would merely be abstract terms.

Finally, good and evil could not exist except in an environment of free agency. There would be no virtue in forcing men to do good and to desist from doing evil. If God were to force people not to murder or to harm their fellow men, or animals, then he would rob them of free agency, and that he cannot and will not do. He may, on occasion, protect his people and his prophets, but on occasion he's also let evil run its course. Just before Jesus ascended into heaven, he told the apostles they were going as sheep among the wolves and he offered them no hope of victory in this life because he knew of the coming apostasy. In fact, I know of only one apostle who was not murdered for the cause of Christ, and that was John.

.

10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

Someone agrees to a Bible study and it goes very well. The investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message. How long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work? I've been interested in this aspect of the religion and also wondered where the notion of church members doing missionary work comes from? It was never required in the ancient church nor is it required in any modern Christian church that I know of.

What if someone just wants to be counted as a member, but continues to see his/her "worldly" families for family reunions or keep the worldly friends he'd made before even joining the Society? Or suppose a JW met someone at work that shared his interest in, say, skydiving, hunting, target shooting, white water rafting and so forth?

On another thread, someone said people with beards shouldn't be allowed to participate in certain meeting activities. I've also read where members also participated in skits. Is this something children do, or does everybody do it? If one just attends Sunday meetings, can he/she be formally disciplined, or is it simply a counseling situation?

.

35

So what if they were wrong?

by DS211 in

this is a reply ireceived from a poster on another forum.

"actually the vast majority of interpretations of prophecy are absolutely spot on.. .

people harp on over this and that that was wrong 50 years ago, but today jehovah's witnesses have all the bible's prophecies pretty much figured out in their entirety.. .

Cold Steel

When one questions prophecy without indicting the Watchtower leaders, is there any attitude adjustment?

For example, if one asked who the two "witnesses" were in Revelation 11, and which temple John was measuring in the same chapter, would anyone attempt to answer them? Or is there a biblical commentary that's available that attempts to answer questions like that? The thing about prophecy is that a Christian can read Isaiah 53 and clearly see Jesus as the fulfillment; however, Jewish scholars read the same text and say, no, Isaiah was speaking of a nation, not the Messiah. Since the Bible was not broken into chapters until much later, many people don't read what comes before. In Isaiah 52, the prophet states, " Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider."

Putting the above at the beginning of the next chapter certainly would have put it more in context and show that Isaiah is referring to a person. Instead, when one begins reading Isaiah 53, it states: "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." But who is "him" and "he"? If you hadn't read the chapter before or weren't aware of how the continuity worked, it would be a mystery.

The Governing Body seeks to interpret some prophecies, but then ignores many others entirely. This goes beyong what is right, or accurate, and what is inaccurate. The Society teaches that Armageddon will be the final conflagration, but it ignores other tiny details such as where it would be and who it would involve. Its teachings on Gog and Magog are equally as tenuous. Ezekiel spends pages speaking of it in detail (chapters 38-39), and yet the Society relegates it to little more than footnotes and it's not clear where, when and if it's happened. Is it the same battle that's described by Zechariah (12-14) and John (Rev. 11-12), when he speaks of Armageddon? All speak of a final assault on Jerusalem, all speak of a last minute salvation by God; and all speak of an unprecedented time of peace afterwards and a permanent reconciliation between Judah and Yahweh.

Many Christians have made the connections between all three accounts. It's one reason the Jews decided to hold out against the Romans, hoping it would be then that they would be rescued. To their surprise, the Romans soundly defeated them and scattered them to the ends of the earth. Before Christ's return, the Jews had to begin returning to the lands of its inheritance, and this has happened. But Bethel was completely wrong about the return of the Jews, the building of its temple and the rise of the Beast and the kingdom that will eventually try to destroy the remnant of Judah. It's that generation that will not pass away before the Lord returns. Not 1914. Already there's a major move to restore the Caliphate in Turkey, and if it's the kingdom that was, is not, and is, then it will be the place from which the Antichrist will emerge. In short, prophecy is multi-faceted and intertwined, and you can't just cherry pick the points you like and ignore the rest.

Here's Joel Richardson speaking about the Antichrist. I don't endorse it...it's evangelical, but it has some interesting views and am just throwing it out as an interesting point of view, and I think he may be on to something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck0hefiwo8A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIK49zZZ9Rw

6

WT and the Wizard of Oz

by Junebuggie in

off to see the wizardmany will easily recall the story of "the wizard of oz.

" curiously, we can gain some insights about spiritual authority from this popular tale.

dorothy, the scarecrow, the tin man and the cowardly lion go to the wizard because they believe he has the power to give them what they need.

Cold Steel

64

Look, Up in the Air...It's a Bird, it's a Plane...No, It's a JW!!

by Cold Steel in

for you ex-jehovahs witnesses...and even you current ones...have you ever contemplated your future existence in paradise earth, should you be fortunate enough to end up there?

during those raucous, fun moments at the kingdom hall when you were contemplating eternity and having the times of your lives...did you ever speculate about what life would be like?

for example, would you have to walk everywhere or would you be able to fly around like superman?

Cold Steel

Nope, he's obviously the decendent of
Ada and Evil Knieval.

25

What have the 'myriads of angels' ever done for humanity?

by yadda yadda 2 in

think about it, myriads upon myriads of do-nothing, never lift a finger angels floating around, ignoring all the untold pain and suffering on this planet for thousands of years.

what have all these millions of angels ever done for anyone?

occasional random materialisations in ancient israelite times?.

Cold Steel

What if "angels" are simply people who have not yet been born, or are people who have lived and died and not been resurrected, or have lived and died and are resurrected? When John bowed down to the angel in Revelation thinking he was Christ, the angel lifted him up and said, "See thou do it not, for I am thy fellowservant, and of of thy brethren the prophets." So if this angel had been a prophet in life, perhaps angels and people are the same.

105

New Article on BEARDS and Attire of Jehovah's Witnesses

by jwfacts in

i have had requests to add an article about beards and jehovah's witnesses.

it is interesting that there is virtually no statement that says a witness cannot have a beard, yet universally they do not have beards.

i have scoured quotes from all the threads on jwn, all references to beard on the cd watchtower library, and copies of elders letters that i have.

Cold Steel

Me: "What's wrong with a beard?"

Elder: "Could you trust someone who wears a beard?"

How do you answer that?

Me: "I trust JESUS. He has a beard. And the scriptures teach that HE is in the "express image" of the FATHER. Most of the apostles, if not all of them, had beards, and I would trust THEM.... Under such circumstances, I would trust people with beards more than I'd trust people without beards. But, then, Judas had a beard, too, most likely. What about you, elder? Could you trust someone with a beard?